Curse

lyra_song · Jul 10, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Please read the whole thread before posting, so as not to repeat arguements that have been discussed already ^^;;

edit: This post is about PvP

Edit: Trascribed from WOC #40

Concerning armor swapping: 1:51:48 into the broadcast

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaiah Cartwright

I'm really against armor swapping. I love swapping weapons. I love that thing, you know switching between different stuff. I do not like the fact that it feels you have to compete with a PvE character right now. It feels like you have to have multiple sets of armor. That's just bad for the game, all around. I don't think its something we want to push forward and support and give hotkeys to and give, you know abilities to switch it. I don't think so.

Concerning PvP characters only having 2 weapons vs a PvE character: 1:53:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaiah Cartwright

Well, I think its a flaw in our system. I think the PvP character screen needs to be expanded and allow you to match what the PvE character can. And i think certain items, certain things that have existed in the game that are too good that only PvE character can get. You've seen that we've been trying to fix those. We've added different items to the PvP character screen. We've added certain bonuses to different places to try to make it more of a level field. You'll continue to see that level of stuff all throughout the game, and we will do our best to make PvP characters can be just as good as PvE characters. We'll probably always keep the distinction between two that you get to look cool as a PvE character, thats your thing. You get to have the sexy outfit, you get to have the awesome weapons. And a PvP character should be just as functional as a PvE character, but he should just look a little less cool.

To start off, Im posting this because of Izzy's comment on the recent WOC radio interview regarding expanding the PvP characters weapon slots.

Idea: Equalize PvP and PvE chars COMPLETELY in PVP modes

Methods:
1) Lock a char's inventory in PVP. [EDITED]
2) Expand PvP char's weapon and armor options. [edit]
3) PvE chars become PvP chars in a PvP area

Lock Char's Inventory In PvP modes [EDITED]

Once a PvP battle has started, a character's inventory is locked. Only weapons in the existing 4 slots will be usable. Only equipped armor is usable (armor lock is implemented).

Expand PvP char's weapon options

Theres quite a bunch of strange weapons available in PvE that dont exist in PvP. Like the nolani wand or the +energy shield. Some of these weapons make it into PvP.

Im sure Anet is already looking at adding these kinds of items into PvP and I think we should formally request it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

- Add the ability to select any inherant mod for weapons and offhands in the PvP creation screen, instead of selecting seperate items from a list.

The PvP chars should have 4 slots for weapons (no brainer there ^^; ) and ability to craft as much armor as their bags can hold. Speaking of which....

They should have access to a FULL backpack/pouch/bag setup with ability to create as many weapons with EVERY mod possible. (implemented)

Lyra's Crazy Idea

When a PvE char enters a PvP staging area, ALL OF THE UNLOCKED SKILLS BECOME USABLE. Just like a PvP char.

When you return to the PvE area, those skills disappear.

I think this will satisfy the PvE players and give them a use for Balthazar points in a more tangible way if they dont use a PvP char.

Anything else?: Destroy the line between PvP and PvE!

Edits: Thanks to -JR

AW Lore · Jul 10, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

looks nice, though:

Quote:

Lock PvE Char's Inventory In PvP modes

Once a PvP battle has started, a character's inventory is locked. Only weapons in the existing 4 slots will be usable. Only equipped armor is usable.

prepare to be flamed on that subject.

Quote:

Lyra's Crazy Idea

When a PvE char enters a PvP staging area, ALL OF THE UNLOCKED SKILLS BECOME USABLE. Just like a PvP char.

When you return to the PvE area, those skills disappear.

I think this will satisfy the PvE players and give them a use for Balthazar points in a more tangible way if they dont use a PvP char.

shouldnt be too hard, i mean, they can do that with the celestial skills

seandom · Jul 10, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Equalizing PvP and PvE characters would take away the incentive to make a PvE character when all you have to do is make a PvP character that is level 20 with all these awesome weapons and whatnot.

Lock PvE Char's Inventory In PvP modes

Once a PvP battle has started, a character's inventory is locked. Only weapons in the existing 4 slots will be usable. Only equipped armor is usable.
Why? If a PvE character BUYS his armor he should be able to switch it in the midst of battle. The reason that PvP characters only have one set of armor to work with is because they do nothing to earn it except make a character.

The PvP chars should have 4 slots for weapons (no brainer there ^^)

Agreed

Lyra's Crazy Idea

When a PvE char enters a PvP staging area, ALL OF THE UNLOCKED SKILLS BECOME USABLE. Just like a PvP char.

When you return to the PvE area, those skills disappear.

I think this will satisfy the PvE players and give them a use for Balthazar points in a more tangible way if they dont use a PvP char.

Just don't see it happening. There is no justification for it. Imagine this...I'm UAX and I go into the ascalon arena with my level 10...BAM I have access to a variety of skills that are amazingly powerful in the arena. The point of having a roleplaying character is to learn and earn the skills on your own.

So in short...this idea is /notsigned.

majoho · Jul 10, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

yeah sure, a char made in 2 mins should be equal to a PvE char

/end sarcasm

lyra_song · Jul 10, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

My ideas seek to resolve the major differences between PvE and PvP chars IN PVP only.

PvP chars have access to ALL unlocked items including all skills, runes, weapon mods etc.

In order for a PvE char to match this, that character has to capture every elite and buy every single skill and buy expensive and overpriced mods if they want to even come close to the versatility in skills that a PvP char has.

This is unfair.

On the same note, PvE characters have access to a bigger weapon pool, more weapon slots, and the ability to swap armors while PvP chars do not.

This is also unfair.

seandom: Ascalon Arena is already full of twinkers. If you want to fix it, have can have all characters who enter it no matter what level they are have reduce HP, Energy, Armor and Weapon damage and available skillsets only available up to Yak's Bend so its an equal playing field.

dreamhunk · Jul 10, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

If anet did that, I am sure more people would just quit the game!

Might as well give pvp player all 15k armor too.

this game would also futher away from being a rpg!

I also grantee anet does this gw is out the door!

lyra_song · Jul 10, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

If anet did that, I am sure more people would just quit the game!

Thank you for the useless post.

My ideas seek to resolve an issue of inequality that has been there for a while.

IT DOES NOT AFFECT PVE-ONLY PLAYERS IN ANY GOREDGO-ING WAY

So unless you PvP, this does not affect you. So shoo~~~

edited for your edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

Might as well give pvp player all 15k armor too.

No. Thats a silly idea. I took a while to make my 15k armor. PvP only chars dont deserve vanity skins because they are there for functionality, not for vanity.

Bak Chi Jai · Jul 10, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Good ideas here, one of the complaints many pvpers have is that they have to grind at pve to make a competitive character for pvp(armour switches, more than 2 weapon sets, capping elites, etc.).
These changes would make a lot of pvpers happy while at the same time benefitting pvers who wish to pvp as well.

nugzta · Jul 10, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I like Lyra's crazy idea. It just needs to be disabled in non max level arenas (ascalon, yaks). Those places cant be accessed by pvp players (only pve players who want to try pvp). So no need for this feature and cant be abused as like seandom mentioned.

anonymous · Jul 10, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

yeah sure, a char made in 2 mins should be equal to a PvE char

/end sarcasm

Yeah, that is how it should be. You shouldnt get an advantage just because you grinded.

Ventius Hozza · Jul 10, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

You get the advantage (should you want it) because you bothered to spend time on your character. I'm not saying that in every case, one person or another may have also spent time building their characters up, but I see the reasoning behind the existing system. If you bother to spend time and money on your character, I think that you honestly deserve the possible advantage.

/notsign

EDIT: And, yes, I would quit the game if such a change happened.

Terra Xin · Jul 10, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

I agree with lyra. This game is about skill, not based on the amount of time you spent on grinding for your armour. Locking the inventories is a good idea. I completely agree that PvE characters should keep their 15k armour (even though that's not the subject at hand), but their ability to give them the advantage of armour switching in combat makes PvPing unbalanced.

Lyra, your last idea really is crazy... There is a reason why there is a difference between PvE and PvP. If you're trying to unify these two, then what you are proposing is that it would be easier to make a PvE character soley for PvP than it would be to make a PvP character, because you have the benefits of both - thus it inheritly puts PvP out of favour.

Im more prone to get angry with non lvl 20's in the battle arenas than anything...

Lurid · Jul 10, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

/signed

My view of the subject (even though I varely PvP) is that if this game is truly "skill instead of time played" then characters who spent the time grinding shouldn't get any more benefits than the characters who did not. One thing that is very annoying and is often overlooked PvP only characters can ONLY PvP, PvE characters can do both, you spent the time on them so you could do this, not so you could have an unfair advantage over the PvP only characters.

I'm either way on the vanity skins, I don't see how it hurts the PvP'ers or the PvE'ers, sounds to me you just want something to bitch about =\

TGgold · Jul 10, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

I like Lyra's crazy idea. It just needs to be disabled in non max level arenas (ascalon, yaks). Those places cant be accessed by pvp players (only pve players who want to try pvp). So no need for this feature and cant be abused as like seandom mentioned.

Jsut remember...all unlocked skills are available to a character at the skill trainers now

Mysterial · Jul 10, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Lock PvE Char's Inventory In PvP modes

Once a PvP battle has started, a character's inventory is locked. Only weapons in the existing 4 slots will be usable. Only equipped armor is usable.

Absolutely. Besides the obvious stupidity of having a character change all his clothes in the middle of a battle, it completely breaks the tradeoffs and balancing of choosing one armor over another if you can just take all of them.

About the various minor items that aren't in the PvP character screen, meh. I personally think it's OK and a good carrot to dangle in front of the "I need teh uber items!" types to have a few balanced, generaly inconsequential PvE only item mods, like the 10% global spell fastcast/recharge items. But I wouldn't care too much if they put them all on the PvP character screen, either.

shadowfell · Jul 10, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Nope, I spent hundreds of hours perfecting a pve character for the eventual use in pvp. I have the right to switch my armors and weapons, etc. You created a character in two minutes with a build in mind. In no way is that equal to the time spent on a pve character. I will agree that pvp should have 4 equipment slots, but don't they already? Do you not just need to enable the slots and stick something in there?

I have spent nearly 3 thousand hours in this game, in 10 months, unlocking everything for pvp through pve. Very seldom have I used faction for an unlock, perhaps for a weird upgrade mod, or something. A large percentage of the gw population, who does pvp, uses their pve characters. It's a symbol of pride and a show of good work and time spent in perfecting something, rather than quick fabricating a generic character that never really feels like 'yours' If they want to switch their armors mid battle. let them. If they want to open their inventory to change runes, let them. They worked their ass off for it too.

Changes like this will not seal the rift between pve and pvp, but will splinter it even further.

Also, not signed for the skills either. Just.. not signed in general. This is rather ridiculous.

lyra_song · Jul 11, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

Nope, I spent hundreds of hours perfecting a pve character for the eventual use in pvp. I have the right to switch my armors and weapons, etc. You created a character in two minutes with a build in mind. In no way is that equal to the time spent on a pve character. I will agree that pvp should have 4 equipment slots, but don't they already? Do you not just need to enable the slots and stick something in there?

I have spent nearly 3 thousand hours in this game, in 10 months, unlocking everything for pvp through pve. Very seldom have I used faction for an unlock, perhaps for a weird upgrade mod, or something. A large percentage of the gw population, who does pvp, uses their pve characters. It's a symbol of pride and a show of good work and time spent in perfecting something, rather than quick fabricating a generic character that never really feels like 'yours' If they want to switch their armors mid battle. let them. If they want to open their inventory to change runes, let them. They worked their ass off for it too.

Changes like this will not seal the rift between pve and pvp, but will splinter it even further.

Also, not signed for the skills either. Just.. not signed in general. This is rather ridiculous.

It seems to me, that the basic concept that Anet has tried to follow with guild wars is:

Grinding =/= Better Player
Builds =/= Better Player
Skill = Better Player
Tactics = Better Player

So your 3000 hour PvE char should not have ANY advantage over my 2 minute PvP char, because what should make the difference is how we play and use the characters.

If you can grind to gain an advantage over me, then the system is broken. That equality that Guild Wars is supposed to be all about is gone

Maiyn · Jul 11, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Yikes, if you're going to lock my inventory can I at least have another weapon slot? >P One or two? Pretty please.

I don't like the idea heh, but I can see how it's unbalanced I guess.. but then I won't be able to put on my dragon mask for kicks in pvp. Thats no fun.

Undivine · Jul 11, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

PvE is not for the sole purpose of PvP you know. PvE, if you some of you can swallow this, is playing the game. PvE is not simply a means to play effective PvP.

If you worked hard to get all your armour, congrats. You've got some shiny 15K armour. But I don't see how changing your armour mid-battle is a "right."

Nice ideas, Lyra.

samifly · Jul 11, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

I like all your ideas

so /signed. I think something should be done about letting PvP-only have multiple sets of armor though... or at least let them change runes without having to reroll.